My husband is from the UK, and he said that people there are less enamored of posh job titles. I believe the UK also has less income inequality (or at least a better social safety net) than the US. I wonder if a country's firms propensity to hand out important sounding job titles is correlated with income inequality.
The government example is interesting because it is often not the case - for an extremely perverse reason. Government agencies that have functions that they actually need to carry out - the military is a good example to start with - outsource a huge amount of the day to day work to contractors who work for places like Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, etc. A lot of these contractors are very well paid; often much more so than the government employees who supervise them. I have personally witnessed projects where there are something like 3 government employees or military officers in charge who are paid government money, and about a hundred contractors who are usually paid tech money. Sometimes this happens because the contractors bid on a contract and are effectively directly managing it but it even happens when the government is directly managing the project and the contractors are essentially "substitute government employees." My impression is that this happens precisely in an attempt to short-circuit the adverse selection phenomenon you describe. The tradeoff is that the contractors typically don't have fancy job titles and are explicitly barred from positions of actual power (ie anything other than doing work).
It's not a good deal for the taxpayer, obviously. A contractor who is a substitute government employee is paid his actual worth, but also a healthy profit for the contracting company. The taxpayer has to pay much more for the same work an employee would be doing. But the government's employment incentives (seniority promotion especially) guarantee that they wouldn't be able to find someone to do that work who's competent to on a government salary.
I think the main reason people talk about monetary incentives is the same reason they talk about monetary inequality: it is easy to measure.
In the case of inequality, it is also easier to imagine how it might forcibly be more evenly redistributed. Not so in the case of unequal status, attractiveness, health, etc. But that does mean that distribution discussions get pushed to the pecuniary even though non-pecuniary issues are often more important.
I'm a little offended by studies that assume all human beings give in to the default of behaving like chimps and baboons.
As Temple Grandin said "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be."
To paraphrase her "nature is status obsessed, but we don't have to be.
The only thing that makes us human is our power to reject chimp like values, and to value ourselves and others for something deeper than having the biggest d*** or the most bananas.
These studies are interesting when it comes to learning our default settings, but I am far more interested in those people who are able to successfully override our default settings and live a deeper, kinder, and more human life.
This is something I've discussed with friends before. Would you rather be someone important with responsibility and status or what if you could somehow get paid more and it's a simple not super important job like a barista at Starbucks. In my group most said they'd take more money and who cares about the status. But could just be my friends and me, and could be more complicating factors.
Rob, this is an interesting discussion of organizational behavior. Did the book’s author attempt to normalize for managerial effectiveness in the status vs. pay evaluation? That is, if a manager can convince 20 employees to be 10% more effective, is that manager worth twice the average wage? And there can be a similar effect with tech guys who find ways to reduce scrap or increase productivity per employee or productivity per unit of capital investment.
Also, in many organizations there is no good or even rational way to assess an individual’s productivity.
Yes, my wife is motivated by money and thus out earns many of her peers, but has a lower job title, my brother in law is very motivated by status and worked his whole life in the non profit sector.
My husband is from the UK, and he said that people there are less enamored of posh job titles. I believe the UK also has less income inequality (or at least a better social safety net) than the US. I wonder if a country's firms propensity to hand out important sounding job titles is correlated with income inequality.
The government example is interesting because it is often not the case - for an extremely perverse reason. Government agencies that have functions that they actually need to carry out - the military is a good example to start with - outsource a huge amount of the day to day work to contractors who work for places like Raytheon, Northrup Grumman, etc. A lot of these contractors are very well paid; often much more so than the government employees who supervise them. I have personally witnessed projects where there are something like 3 government employees or military officers in charge who are paid government money, and about a hundred contractors who are usually paid tech money. Sometimes this happens because the contractors bid on a contract and are effectively directly managing it but it even happens when the government is directly managing the project and the contractors are essentially "substitute government employees." My impression is that this happens precisely in an attempt to short-circuit the adverse selection phenomenon you describe. The tradeoff is that the contractors typically don't have fancy job titles and are explicitly barred from positions of actual power (ie anything other than doing work).
It's not a good deal for the taxpayer, obviously. A contractor who is a substitute government employee is paid his actual worth, but also a healthy profit for the contracting company. The taxpayer has to pay much more for the same work an employee would be doing. But the government's employment incentives (seniority promotion especially) guarantee that they wouldn't be able to find someone to do that work who's competent to on a government salary.
I think the main reason people talk about monetary incentives is the same reason they talk about monetary inequality: it is easy to measure.
In the case of inequality, it is also easier to imagine how it might forcibly be more evenly redistributed. Not so in the case of unequal status, attractiveness, health, etc. But that does mean that distribution discussions get pushed to the pecuniary even though non-pecuniary issues are often more important.
First rule of social status club, don't talk about social status club
I'm a little offended by studies that assume all human beings give in to the default of behaving like chimps and baboons.
As Temple Grandin said "Nature is cruel, but we don't have to be."
To paraphrase her "nature is status obsessed, but we don't have to be.
The only thing that makes us human is our power to reject chimp like values, and to value ourselves and others for something deeper than having the biggest d*** or the most bananas.
These studies are interesting when it comes to learning our default settings, but I am far more interested in those people who are able to successfully override our default settings and live a deeper, kinder, and more human life.
This is something I've discussed with friends before. Would you rather be someone important with responsibility and status or what if you could somehow get paid more and it's a simple not super important job like a barista at Starbucks. In my group most said they'd take more money and who cares about the status. But could just be my friends and me, and could be more complicating factors.
Rob, this is an interesting discussion of organizational behavior. Did the book’s author attempt to normalize for managerial effectiveness in the status vs. pay evaluation? That is, if a manager can convince 20 employees to be 10% more effective, is that manager worth twice the average wage? And there can be a similar effect with tech guys who find ways to reduce scrap or increase productivity per employee or productivity per unit of capital investment.
Also, in many organizations there is no good or even rational way to assess an individual’s productivity.
Yes, my wife is motivated by money and thus out earns many of her peers, but has a lower job title, my brother in law is very motivated by status and worked his whole life in the non profit sector.